Beta testing is really depressing.
When you put as much time into a project as Kingcom and I have, you start to feel like you’ve produced something pretty great. Thankfully, our beta testers have been there to keep us from drifting into the clouds. We’ve been brought crashing back to the ground, but this is all to your benefit. I don’t mean to say that the game has been a complete mess, certainly the work we put into it up until now has paid off. As a result, our beta testers have been able to isolate bugs and help us to improve the text. Above all else, this process has reminded me just how important it is to test the game properly. Despite my efforts to test the game, there were some crashes that I had missed and some textual mistakes I had read right over. But we’re finding them and we’re fixing them thanks to the beta testers.
Unfortunately, we have some bad news to announce. No, the project isn’t canceled. No, the release isn’t being pushed back 30 years. However, it is looking like we may have to disable the wireless multiplayer in the patched version of the game. Please understand that after all the effort we put into making this game as perfect as possible, nothing frustrates us more than the possibility of having to do something like this. Although I said disable, know that it will still be included in the game. If you really want to try it in spite of knowing the consequences, it will be possible. Here’s the deal… According to the testing we’ve done, playing the patched game with both the original Japanese game or the patch results in unpredictable crashes during dialogue. Battle seems to work just fine, but it’s almost impossible to make any progress in the game while using wireless mode. There are some other minor issues regarding item boxes and search points, but those aren’t crashes. You might be wondering why we can’t fix these problems like we’re fixing others. Unfortunately, no DS emulator supports wireless play, so we have no way of debugging the issues. Without debugging, we would have no idea where to start fixing them. Unless we get access to a DS devkit (and that will never happen), we can’t do anything about these issues.
We realize that for most of you, this will make absolutely no difference whatsoever. 99% of you probably never intended to play the game using wireless multiplayer (if you even knew the game had it). As perfectionistic as Kingcom and I are, we aren’t going to put the entire project on hold for years while we wait for emulator that would allow us to fix this. That is why we feel that disabling the wireless is the best course of action. It will allow us to present the full game as we intended but will still allow access to that broken extra for those who really want it. Oh, and for those of you who know more about the game, the Versus style WILL be available in-game without using the wireless mode. This isn’t the perfect solution. There is no perfect solution. We’re doing the best we can with the hand we’ve been dealt. If and when it becomes possible to emulate DS wireless, we intend to release an updated patch that gets it working as intended, but understand that could be years from now. I apologize that it had to come to this, but I hope you understand.
What do you think the best solution is? Some of the options we considered:
- Disable the wireless (allowing access with a code)
- Leave the wireless as-is and add extra warnings in-game
- Disable wireless completely
Hey Hey here wait a minute everyone… Just because YOU don’t want wireless doesn’t mean that others don’t. For me im not to bothered about it, (seriously) I like playing games because of the story. But I’d like to think that if people want to play wireless you should have to option at least. All I see right now are selfish people, those who just think of themselves ( I see many “I don’t want or I don’t need etc”). DAMN SELFISH I SAY. What about the others who want multiplayer (even if there is a small percentage).
I’d say the second option.
First reason is: Maybe there is a way to fix it, there is a large nds games community
Second reason: At least you are giving at least an option and warning, it isn’t much of a bad idea.
Third reason: Others who may have siblings or friends would also like to try multiplayer
Anyway its up to you Throughim and Kingcom, it’s not really my place to say don’t disable it. But i just hope you understand what im getting at.
P.S. Never even knew it had multiplayer lol so it kind of surprised me.
I forgot to mention, that i seriously wouldn’t mind if the beta testing was long. Everyone needs to learn to be patient anyway. Take your time and thanks for translating
I think some people’s impatience are showing.
Also it seems that some people who want to disable the wireless completely believe that wireless is on all time for some reason. (Are there any DS games that are like that at all?) Wireless is only activated when playing multiplayer, so it you don’t want crashes, simply don’t use it.
Agreed.. People should read our comments before actually posting. I DON’T WANT or I DON’T NEED etc, Like what Jungyin and others who might have said. If you don’t want to play multiplayer, don’t use it .
Are you going to update the project information section? You know things like how much of the game has been tested, how many relevant bugs, how the beta testing is being done. Aside from the sad news about the wireless mode there wasn’t much info about the overall progress.
I’m not sure if this is an official voting or not, if the team just asking for opinion then it is alright for everyone to say what they want to. At the end, the final decision is on the team’s hand.
I really want to play this in English, so I won’t deny it that I want to play this as soon as possible… as long as the main story is free of bugs.
I vote for the 2nd option altough the 1st one could do the job better.
If it doesnt work disable it,and if in any near future a possibility appears release another patch with Wi-fi.
Sorry for my English
DeSmuME got Wifi I been playing DS games online for a week on it… http://forums.ngemu.com/desmume-discussion/134329-impossible-just-happened-wfc-desmume.html
i think that all the options you gave us are ok ,but also i would say that the 2nd would be the best for the players that just want to train a bit with friends without making progress.
Mistakes in my speech are for free^^
I say you should make two patch one with the multiplayer for those who want it and one without it for the people who dont intend to play multiplayer
By what you said it seems the work is going well but I’m still in the dark. Can’t you say how much of the game has been tested or how the beta testing is organized? Like “we are testing this first and will then test that”. I’m not asking for a release date and read the “The Silver Lining” post, but I miss info like the percentages in the project information section.
There are too many different testers in too many different places to give you any kind idea how much has been done.
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Well, you are only going to release the patch when you are satisfied with it, right? So you gotta have means to get an idea of how much progress has been made, no? So you are only going to release it when there are no more bug reports from the testers or something like that? Can a bug remain “hidden” in a point of the game and force the tester to play though a part multiple times to find it? So I assume even a single 100% complete run through the game isn’t enough to label the patch “safe? Sorry if I’m bein an annoyance but I really want to know how this beta testing works.
Hi all, first post, been following this project a long time though. First of all, thanks for all your hard work. My boyfriend and I are big tales fans and we play all tales games together (yay for multi-player!). So needless to say, we are a bit disappointed that the multi-player won’t work (not very surprised though, we already tried other patched DS multiplayer games and failed). I would still vote for option 2, just to give things a try. We are still looking forward to this game and we can’t thank you guys enough for all your effort and time, it will still be a great game
If it is causing such a big problem, disable it completely. I had planned on using it (check comments from way, way back) butI can live without. Tales is still fun when playing alone.
Is this referring to just emulators? What if you were to have an r4/dstt/whatever else there is and you played the game on an actual DS instead of on an emulator? Would it still work then? I vote for option 2 in case people, like myself, would want to check it out.
Ignore the above post as I went and re-read your initial post as well as all the comments left here.
First: Thank you for all this hard work. It’s been a long trial, but at the end not only will the fans be happy, but you will be too.
Second: Regardless of my error in reading, I still vote for option 2. Why take it out? Does leaving it there hinder the regular story mode? If you can’t fix it just leave it. A warning would help people decide whether or not to try it. I think taking it out is not an option because though there are tons of people here with no one to play with voting to do so, there are others who wish for it as well.
Option #2
this is just me but…personaly i never knew the game had wireless play and honestly i could care less..dont get me wrong having it in it would be great i just feel its something id never use (mainly since i had intended to play it on an emulator which like u said doesnt support it anyway) id say disable it but allow access with a code then again the code could be a problem since wireless mode might detect a code being used im pretty sure they would have some sort of protection against people who use any type of code activly online
“im pretty sure they would have some sort of protection against people who use any type of code activly online”
Nope. They don’t (at least most don’t).
i’d like to rethink my original thoughts… because i’m curious… does having the wireless there cause problems regardless of use? like even if we don’t make use of the wireless, does it still interfere with the game? or does it only begin to cause crashing after entering wireless mode?
because if only remotely glazing past the wireless function can cause a crash i would say disable it entirely.
But if the player must actually change a setting to be ON before crashing ensues, then i’d say leave it there with a stability warning. The risk takers can still test the waters all they want and the rest of us still are not bothered by any problems.
For those curious about the Wireless Mode in this game; basically, the game has a local wireless mode (ad-hoc only, so no WFC/Online support). This mode has one person act as a host, and supports up to 3 guest players, for a total of 4 players. The host is the one that basically is in control of all story progression and exploration. He (or she) may start a new game or may chose to load an existing save and continue his/her progress from there.
If your party currently doesn’t have enough members, the extra players will have to wait for more characters to join the party through story progression. They may still monitor the progress of the game on their own screens. As with the console tales that features multiplayer, it is only during battle that the other players get to do anything (they can however monitor the progress of the main game through their own pair of screens, but all menu choices and such are exclusively viewed and interacted with on the host’s screen.)
Equipment, skills and levels are entirely based on what the host has available on his progress, but it’s not entirely unrewarding to play the Wireless Mode for someone who’s got a game of their own going on their own cartridge. By participating as a guest player in the Wireless Mode, you receive Guild Points, Grade and Gald, which you upon Game Over, Interruption of the Wireless Connection, or quitting the game and returning to the title screen will be prompted to “reward” one of your own save games with.
There’s also, as I believe throughhim may have already addressed in a post of his own, a “Style” that can normally only be unlocked via the Wireless Mode (a style called Versus, if I’ve understood things right). If I’ve understood things right, the Styles grants you various forms for bonus stats, properties and effects during battle.
Anyway, here’s to hoping the Wireless Mode is salvageable and that it’ll rise and shine! I’m sure everyone’s trying their best. However, if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work! There should be no shame in disabling the feature if it remains nearly unplayable. Alternatively, you could just go hardcore and return to the game, in Japanese, for some of that multiplayer action after completing the game in English. However, if it gets fixed, and its stability is great, I strongly urge people to gather their friends and do some local social gaming, together, as soon as this patch is out. Far too many are relying entirely on their internet connection in order to get their multiplayer needs fulfilled these days! Some don’t even try multiplayer modes at all.
Multiplayer is also often a good way of introducing new people to the joys games have to offer. Cooperative gameplay also enables those who’re seasoned players to compensate for the shortcomings of the newcomers, rather than the newcomers having a rough time fighting the veterans, or the veterans having to put on an act or the use of handicaps to even the playing field!
The portable nature of the NDS should also enable you all to pick your own background scenery for some of that multiplayer gaming! Be it a local park, an old abandoned warehouse, the school yard, the coffee table at work or at a coffee shop, or maybe even on a train while going on a little trip with friends and family.
…in reguards to that wall of text…isnt there only 3 people in a battle? so wouldn’t the max be 3? ..and if it is 4 wtf does the 4th guy do, watch?
Duh! You’re absolutely right. I got my numbers messed up! Maybe I should blame that entirely on time zones or some other lame pattern-ish thing. I think I slipped somewhere around the part where I forgot to mention that the game allows for detection/viewing of 4 hosts – Thus 4 lobbies -> 3 players -> 2 guests. Drop the first and you get my mistake of 4 players, 3 guests. Sorry. My bad!
Sheesh, you sure are making a mountain out of a molehill, throughhim413. I vote 2.
Don’t care about multiplayer. Keep up the great work.
I’d say just save all the trouble and let the multiplayers persist throughout the game using translation guides when necessary (choice 3). I’ve gone through 3/4 of the game using a somewhat grammatically irresistible script translation anyways. If you’re THAT willing to play multiplayers, use that guts to play without the patch or just suck it up and abandon multiplayer, as it is not a necessary factor in playing this game. If complaints were to rise, they should be reminded that they’re extremely lucky to be offered high quality translation patch for a great game in the first place that we couldn’t play normally otherwise.
I hope its not to rough on multiplayer i’m one of those 1% that actually had 2 other friends who want to play this game and held off playing it alone or together in japanese and were all waiting on this patch to play it XD. I figure the tales series was only good cuz of its multi-playerness.
i’m going with option #2
I’d have to say 2.
Some people always have to find out for themselves.
well thought of something, the ”Code” ur talking about is it an action replay or code breaker code or something? (if not disreguard this) Having an Emulator really helps but u cant do multiplayer with it anyway u would need a DS im sure most ppl wouldnt have an AR or CB for their DS so while it would be nice for some would be a disapointing inconvienence for others so if it is an AR or CB code then id have to say go with 2…that is unless multiplayer also interfiers with normal gameplay then id have to say just disable it :S
I choose the second solution, but only if that won’t delay the release of the patch and won’t intrfiers the 1-player gameplay. I don’t bother if the game has or doesn’t have the wireless option, I just wanna play this game until my fingers bleed!
I prefer the second option
Hey All,
Alright, I’ve officially never left a comment here before, but I’ve been watching this patch since the very beginning, and I just wanted to thank you guys for all the hard work you’ve put into making this for everyone!
Now onto the topic at hand, personally, it doesn’t really matter to me one way or the other whether the multiplayer is left in at all or not. I’ve played just about every single Tales game there is, and I think I only used the multiplayer function once. I never really liked it that much, because all the second person really does is help out on the battles, and has no control of the flow of the game…unless he wants to wrestle the person sitting next to him for the other controller…Either way, someone always inevitably gets knocked out – be it physically, or just through the shear boredom of waiting FOOOOORRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR for the person to get to a battle…
That being said, I think you should go with the second option on this one. Multiplayer is not required to play the game by any means, so disabling it just seems like overkill. To me, if you put in warnings way ahead of time for the person saying “PROCEEDING WITH THIS FUNCTION MAY CAUSE YOUR GAME TO CRASH OR OTHERWISE NOT FUNCTION PROPERLY” then they’ve been warned. If they continue on, they’re saying that they acknowledge the risks, and want to give it a shot anyway, and thus have no right to complain later saying that the multiplayer function messed up their game. Again – they were warned. I wouldn’t say take it out completely, however, because – as I think someone mentioned earlier, a way to fix this problem may come up later on down the line, and if not, it still offers the chance for someone to play this game with their friends…but that’s just my take on it…
Anyways, wanted to thank you all again for all the hard work! and I look forward to the eventual release of the patch in the near future!!
~Tsurian
I think I’d prefer option one.
Just lock the thing away, but make it accessible to those who are willing to take the risk.
I didn’t even know it had wireless functions… And then I have no clue what to expect…
i have one best solution for this
Just do two patch , one patch who patch the game with no wireless option for people want it and one other patch for people who want it.
It’s all , so everybody is happy.
I read pretty much all the posts up until now, and what i can tell is that many people are anxious for a patch to be out to finally be able to play this awesome game.
I know your committed to quality and all, but i think the best course of action right now is essentially to remove WIFI, fix the bugs, then release this patch straight away.
THEN, take your time implementing the wifi ability when you learn more about it and how to correct related bugs. Then, when you figure it out, just release that patch and people can continue their saves with WIFI, or at least start a new game Plus with WIFI if they want. The main thing is to get around to playing the actual game. So forget the wifi for now, and work on debugging and releasing a playable version of the game without WIFI for all to play.
Thanks
you know whats funny? after staying away for almost 2 months, i actually still thought there might be something finished here already
release the game with warnings and for gods sake, if there ever happens to be a wireless supporting emulator, reconsider your faulty one-release-only rule
to be honest… unless a patch appears on this page, I’ll keep believing all you did was photoshop screenshots and trolling people
… how about a kick in the dick? do you believe that?
I am honored that you consider me to be such an awesome troll that I could lead people on for almost two years.
If it can’t be done, it can’t be done. Leave it ingame with a warning and be done with it. Once again, amazing job Team Zero
@blah
What about all those videos? Hopefully you were just joking earlier….
I’d probably vote for leaving it in as well. I don’t see much point in removing what is already there, other than decreasing mindless comments like “****. This doesn’t work!”
If keeping the wifi enabled make the beta testing take longer, then you should disable it, but if it does not take more time for beta testing, then the best thing would be to make a warning about the wifi.
Hey boy, is there a way that me and some other friends can help later to fix this issue? (I mean, after the patch is release) because some of us have experience patching games and debbuging source code. Generally the reason for things like this to happen are pretty simple, but hard to find. We would like to help. By now, option 2 seems good enough.
if wireless crashes the game by just having it then disable it if not then option 2…
btw i dont know if anyone asked you but… the versus style is gonna have to be earned in some other way or its just gonna be there??
lol. ur prediction is true.. and yes. i never knew that the game had a wireless option. and i don’t really hav many Tales Fan in RL so i don’t mind playing it alone. I would say i picked
solution number
3!!!
haha! so there! but if number 1 or 2 is easier to do, I might reconsider my choice. u can just do whatever the best and the most fastest and yet easiest to do..
Ahahaha, that made me laugh =>.<=
A 2 year troll, that would be the silliest thing ever. If it was so, even though I'd be insanely disappointed that I wouldn't get a patch for Innocence, I'd still say hats of to you for being able to pull something so grandiose as that.
Anywho, I've already posted the option I'd prefer, so I'll not repeat myself.
yep, that’s true most of us really don’t use the wireless function.. but some of us need to, isn’t it? hmm~ maybe if i got a new DS i would need the wireless function. ~_~ so i think the 1st choice is the best, no specific reason, just my heart tells so.